Trauma and Crisis Close To Home

Episode Summary

A discussion on when trauma hits close to home, the impact on the community, and how to process these events. 

Episode Notes

In this episode we explore how traumatic events can impact the whole community, and how to process these events in a healthy way.

TOPICS DISCUSSED: 

 -Ripple effects throughout the community

-Different types of grief: what has been lost?

-The power of staying present

 -How parents can be there for their children—even when struggling themselves

-Returning to a level of stability and routine

Transcript

This is On Your Radar, a podcast series produced at WGN Radio with the clinicians and staff from Rosecrance. I'm John Williams from WGN Radio, and this is the fourth in our On Your Radar podcast series for the year 2022. And in this podcast, we want to talk about the stress that sometimes seems to overwhelm an individual or a community. Jason Relle is here. He is the Director of Crisis Services for Rosecrance. And Liliana Kay is here, too. She is the mental health therapist and licensed clinical social worker for Rosecrance, or one of them. Liliana, welcome. 

Thank you. 

And Jason, nice to meet you. 

Thank you. 

Thanks for coming into our WGN Radio studios. I want to talk about a specific event, and maybe as we talk about this one, it will resonate to people for a whole host of reasons, but the one that is on my mind today is what happened on the 4th of July, 2022, in Highland Park when a mass shooting took place. And when that rocked not just the people that were impacted directly by a shooter's bullets, but that were at the parade that day, that were in Highland Park generally, and in Chicagoland in general for that matter as well. Is it... it too obvious or too much of a reach to say that something like that, Jason, impacts a community? It changes a community? 

No, it's not a far reach at all. I think it absolutely impacts an entire community from those individuals that were directly there. And it continues to have a ripple effect. Proximity is absolutely a variable when we're talking about a mass shooting. But it is not something that is necessary to someone having symptoms or an impact on them. It could be somebody that has experienced things similarly or really relates to an individual or individuals who are there, family members that might be miles away, but it definitely impacts those closest, those who knew people who maybe were lost or wounded or were at the parade that day, had to go to other community events in the area. So it has a different impact on many individuals who could have seen or even heard about the event through media. 

That's interesting. And Liliana, I've been imagining it as the physical proximity, but people come in with their own experiences and background. Maybe somebody has suffered a trauma in the past and his is a little too close for comfort for them, too, I suppose, huh?

Yeah, definitely. And Jason and I had the ability to go and do, and provide crisis work for Highland Park after that. And we were able to speak. I spoke to a few individuals and families either directly in it, on the block, or even a couple blocks away and how it impacted them.

What did they say? 

All different, right?  So they were shaken, I think, was the general consensus. But it was very motivating to see how much they were willing to, and accepting of, the services that was being offered to them. So, it did depend on where they were in terms of that day or even the aftermath of hearing it on the news. But, you know, each experience was different. And just from hearing from each family about how they processed it, some thought, like, "Do I hide? Do I run? Is it fireworks?” And just how they kind of handled that.

Do I run? Is it fireworks? Meaning that was their reaction in the moment. So, the very fact that they didn't know what was happening and what to do is a kind of crisis unto itself. 

Definitely.

And then what do you do after the fact? Were you involved in that as well? 

So I was able to be one of the many individuals who responded in the days after. In talking to other therapists who had went, or understanding what their experience was, it was, you know, it really ran a range of why people were seeking out services. Maybe they were just someone who needed services before that weren't there, or the individuals that really wanted to see a community come together. There was an amazing level of connectedness that I think we both saw when we went there, is just to see the community band together. So many individuals came from several organizations across, you know, different levels of volunteers and helping and being able to provide children or adults with stuffed animals or fidgets or just having an ear to talk to somebody.  I think all of it was extremely important in that community, being able to show that we're going to provide resources to anyone who wants to come, just hang out, and was really affected by what happened that day.

And that can be almost ironically galvanizing for a community, too. After 9-11, you think about some of the trauma that America has gone through and how for a period of time people feel like they are there for each other. You're referencing something along those lines, I suppose. 

There’s an importance when you have an event like that, or a traumatic event, to want to return to a feeling of being connected to others. You don't want to feel like you're the only person who experienced that. You want to be able to as an entire community, and in Highland Park what we were able to see was understand that a lot of us are going through this, and we can be there for one another, see faces, and we don't have to maybe hide in our homes, but we can actually experience some level of joy or social connectedness with others, or we can actually talk about what happened, talk to a therapist and experience the feelings that I'm feeling, not just by myself. I don't have to just be strong for the others, but we can be strong as a community together. 

Well, people that were on that parade route or were close enough to hear the shots or see what happened. What happens to them? Do they have nightmares? Do they replay that over in their heads? Can you speak in general or specific terms about how impactful that is to people? 

I think that definitely can be common signs and symptoms of that. Witnessing a traumatic event can have those symptomologies, but it's dependent on the person. We can all be in a traumatic event, and it's how you process and how you handle that. From the experience that I had with individuals that I spoke with, hearing the process of do I run? So, like that freeze, flight, fight kind of sets in. And I think it was interesting to hear about, even looking it into the communities and how to heal from that is just doing that little reflection on yourself of like, if you were in a similar situation, how do you think you would handle that? And I think that's a kind of way to process that. 

If I were in a similar situation, what would I do? 

Yeah. 

Well, I would, I would run for cover. I would try and protect myself. 

Yeah, but see that pause right there. I mean, it takes time to think of what you would do. So, kind of having that already in your mind that you would run for cover, going into a community event, I think is really important. 

Going forward, you mean. 

Yes. 

But I also, I think I was wondering, well, would I try and do something to stop the event from unfolding? And then if I hesitate or if I don't,  I wonder if that's going to bother me as well, that I would wish that I had been a little more helpful than just a victim. 

There's absolutely an opportunity to feel that level of stress and question your response. Did I do things right? Why did this happen? And it's also important to know we may not get those answers. 

So how do we, no matter what our stress response is, what anxieties we're feeling about the what ifs or did I freeze? How can we return to some level of routine stability and get back on our track, whatever that is? 

And that's why you're here. I'm going to ask you for some specificity about that. But I was talking to somebody recently, and somebody broke into their car. And they drove it around. And we talked about getting the car back. And now the car is normal. You know, you get it cleaned up and you're good to go. And she said, I feel so violated. I don't want to get back in that car, and it bothers me to think that somebody was in my space, in my stuff. And I wonder if that writ large is a little analogous to what these people go through in Highland Park. You talk about a sense of violation that you're going to carry around with you now. It's not just your automobile. It's your life that you feel so intruded upon in a most violent way. So pardon me, I've just now told you how difficult it must be for people to shake these feelings. Does that make sense? 

Yeah. I also think it comes with a level of maybe like grief and not grief of just a loss of a loved one, but a grief of loss of security, of the safety that you once felt in a community. So you are in this kind of grieving process. So it might not even be, you know, violated, but now kind of just handling that grief piece. 

Right, Jason. Now I'm angry, you know, and I'm ticked every day. I'm ticked every day going forward that you did this to me and my town. 

And it's, a lot of the times, in places that are meant for joy or learning. We talk about the parade, but we've talked about schools or grocery stores. So it's your typical traditional places that you're going with your family or yourself to do your everyday routine tasks. And that anger is okay. You are allowed to be angry and fully feel a range of emotions. If it's happiness, anger, sadness, anxiety, the difficulty comes when, like you said, it's all day or every day I'm feeling violated or angry. That's when it may be time to talk to someone and start to process those emotions in a different way or really understand that, okay, even though control was lost in this moment, I thought I was going here this day, this would happen, this is how it would play out. My whole sense of community was shaken. I can still return to a level of control, and there are some things that I'm able to control in my environment. And how do I get back to that to feel a little less angry? 

So, what do you do? You just slap him across the face and say, hey, that was a one-off. This is probably not going to happen again. I'm being flippant. I shouldn't be. But I guess that's kind of the place we want to get to, right? That you need to sort of see it for the... exclusive event that it was in your life than in this community's life without kidding yourself, either. I mean anything can happen, but it really was an extraordinary event. Is that part of the mental processing of something like this? 

It is definitely part of it. There's so many different sides to that question because, also, that

anticipation of another event happening that you spoke about with the breaking into the car can also lead to distress and acute stress because you're always thinking about, okay this is likely, it wasn't likely and did happen. So what's going to happen next, or when. And we want to get back to that point that, okay, it did happen, but right now, in this moment, being present, we are safe, and there is a sense of security right now in what we're doing. So how do we remain as present as possible and respond to the environment that we're currently in and understanding that, yes, this happened. We're safe right now. 

Are there people who are predisposed to be more resilient in a situation like this and less able, maybe, to handle something like this? What's your experience been?

Lily. I think my experience has been, it's really dependent on the person, right? So sometimes we go through traumatic events, and we're able to kind of process and move on and find that new normal or get back to our baseline. Sometimes we go, you know, there's a traumatic event, we're not able to cope, and then it's the next distressing event kind of. 

And it may surprise me or an individual, right? Maybe they didn't know where their baseline was and suddenly their hand's being played right before them. 

Yeah.  So I think it's important to just be self-aware and mindful of your baseline and finding that. 

Or, agreed. I mean, clearly this might help you define that because you didn't know. I'm wondering if some people are sitting there going, well, they seem to be able to handle it, but I don't right now. What's with me? 

And I think that's okay. It's okay not to handle it. But now, knowing that you've identified, okay, I'm not handling it like other people, but what can I do to start handling it, which is then the seeking the professional help, reaching out to people and support. 

Yeah, and I'm wondering how well they're handling it anyway. They seem fine, but maybe they're not. There's a fear of missing out, and there's the fear of missing therapy or something. I don't know. There's some analogy there where... Perhaps another layer of anxiety is, am I the odd one here and everybody else is okay? Is there something to that? 

There can definitely be stigma surrounding, everyone else seems like they're doing okay. They are walking around getting back to whatever normalcy looks like. But I'm not. Maybe I should be. So you do start to question, do I really need to talk to someone? Maybe I need to keep this behind closed doors. I would challenge that thought completely and say that those individuals, if you are struggling or you've gone outside any type of behaviors that are typical to you, it's when it's okay to seek help with others. It's okay to look around you. And even if people look like they're doing well, that's where conversation becomes really important because there might be people under your own roof who aren't doing well. So establishing a level of communication with them, your peers, to maybe even see how did they get through it? Were there ways that they were able to return to routine that might be beneficial and helpful to you, too? So not just shutting out the world because it looks like they're managing, but being able to understand. We can talk to people around us, be prepared for this conversation the best we can, and respond in a way that's going to ultimately help me, too.

Is it similar to the experience somebody would have if they were in a car crash or, you know, in a terrible fire. I'm thinking of crises that people have not normally had to process and sometimes suddenly do. Is this conversation we're having about Highland Park, say, and that community, the same conversation other people have under other circumstances, you know, where they've gone through some sort of unanticipated trauma?

There are definitely similarities. I think we're still trying to figure out through research and different studies what it means, particularly, you know, for mass shootings. However, the response to trauma, the precipitance of having a traumatic event in the responses of others can look very similar. They can struggle with anxiety, acute stress, being more distressed, being unable to manage their mood, having other precipitants that remind them of that event. Like you said with the breaking into the car, it's similar. If you had a house fire, is it now, oh, I have to check everything three times before I leave the house to make sure. So these behaviors, some of them very normal and a normal response to a traumatic event. Others, we want to be able to look at, and really, again, assess our self-awareness level about where we're at with responding to that particular event, whatever it is. 

You know, with your colleagues, though, in the previous podcast, we talked about how there's a number of factors in life and the world these days that are stressors for us, be it the next election or a war or a mass shooting, say. And one of the things that they identified is just sort of something that colors everything has been the pandemic since 2020. But I would imagine in a Highland Park, it would be, sure, there's coping with the pandemic, as we all are, but that having had that event take place in their community is just a shade that they're always going to have to sort of look through or deal with. That it's not like being in a fire or in a car crash. It is substantially awful and dramatic and far-reaching that it's another sort of pandemic-like event undo itself for this community. I'm just trying to put it into some context and see how maybe endemic it is for the people of Highland Park. Would you comment on that?

It's important, something that you said, that we don't want to get to a place where it feels like it's just like that other event and almost normal. It is not. And some of these individuals will be experiencing some prolonged stress because of this event. And it's important to recognize that there are individuals that will have complicated grief and have to then manage understanding their level of safety and security for a little longer and may not be able to let some of that go. So we do want to recognize that although it's important for that connection, it's also, it was said earlier, really important to understand how can we have the community at large feel safe and secure. 

Do you recommend that people go back to the street and sort of walk back through that setting? Or what sort of physical things do people do along these lines?

In terms of how to process?

Yeah process and cope.

Yeah, well, I mean again, I think it's dependent. I can't speak for everyone in that sense, but I think sometimes the reminders, the continuing to see the, even, the aftermath of it in terms of like the, you know, Highland Park strong stuff can be triggering for an individual. But it also might be that feeling, that connectedness with the community. 

When you were visiting with some of the people who had been in Highland Park that day, how much time had lapsed between the 4th of July and maybe your communication with them? 

It was like the next day. 

Really? 

Yeah, so we went out fairly soon. 

And were they in tears? Were they still shaking? 

It depends. Some were shaking. Some did just want that space to kind of cry with me and know that it's an okay thing. The process of how that looked is, you know, they came in and we kind of put them on a continuum of zero to ten. So ten being the worst. Zero being, I'm totally good. So, our goal was, with those sessions, was to get them just a little bit lower than they came in. So, if that meant they needed resources, if they just needed a safe place to cry and just have someone to kind of sit there with them, validate their experience. Because I think that was a big thing, knowing that grief is not linear. Sometimes they're not having symptoms,  and they're able to get back to a new norm right away. Sometimes they were coming back every day to receive that service and crisis intervention. So knowing that it wasn't linear, that sometimes the symptoms will go, sometimes they'll come back, I think, and then that validation piece was just really important. 

And crisis intervention in a situation like that, is it mostly just letting people vent or?

It's dependent on the person. Like, I hate to keep saying that as my answer, but it is very dependent. How I started was, how could I be of value to you? I mean, I only have you, I'm working with you for 45 minutes to an hour. Like, how can I help? And sometimes it was, you know, they wanted to learn mindfulness skills, learning deep breathing techniques, how to handle when they're starting to feel that anxiety increase, especially going through the town and trying to get back to that new norm. Finding that routine again. So, it was a little, a bit of everything. 

Well, sure. 

Yeah. 

How about you? What were some of your experiences like along those lines?

To me, I only ended up meeting with one person. And with that individual, it was a lot about a question that I heard a lot of colleagues talk about as a trend was, how do I parent now knowing that my children can be unsafe? So, it was this question of, I'm not going to be with them all of the time. How do I understand the skills that are necessary? And how am I there for them when I'm struggling? So that was one of my experiences in talking to others and looking at something that is a really difficult conversation to think about. How do I begin to parent when I might not be okay, too?

And what's the answer to that? 

So there are a lot of different things, but really being there, being present in your emotions, being able to understand that you're not okay is important. And then, depending on the age of your child, being there for them in a way that shows, I'm going to listen. I'm going to listen calmly because that's important. You don't want to, even if you're experiencing a strong distress or disruption in self, you want to be able to be there for them. Start a conversation. Really gauge. What do they know? Because there's various levels of that ripple effect too. Was there media that they've already seen? Did they hear about it on news? Were they there? And then assess: what do you know about this? And then start that conversation, start them to be prepared and reinforce that they're safe and secure ,and that, if they have questions, we can talk, and I'll be as honest, you know, as you want me to be in that sense, because truth is important. We don't want to make up the responses. And then we want to get back to a place that sounds much easier than it is to start accumulating positive experiences. Just enjoy one another again. A lot of times after big events, we don't feel we can laugh and smile, and we can together. And then that's going to help the healing. 

That's an interesting point, and I guess that's something you alluded to earlier as well, that at some point it's okay to resume your life. In fact, you have to resume your life, and it's okay to enjoy your life as well, right? 

Definitely. Yeah, I think that's part of the healing process, is that you have to. But I also think then validating that it's okay to not be okay, but then what do we do with that? Is that we just need to put a pause on our household chores and let those sit for a day and then come back to it so that you can process? Or is it you need to seek professional help? 

Yeah, I'm wondering, and again, I bet I know you're going to say it depends on the individual. 

You already know. 

Because it should, because we're all different. But I wonder, how can I tell if somebody is struggling, if I should intervene, if I should either try and be their sounding board? Drive them to Rosecrance or make a phone call. I mean, I don't know. Both of you speak to that.  How can I tell that somebody is struggling?

Yeah. Well, I mean, I think first, before you can identify someone struggling, you have to know your baseline and know what is your baseline so that you know when you can help and when it's a good place to stop and know that's when professional help needs to step in. And then knowing the individual, right? Like knowing their baseline and what has changed in a sense of, are they not sleeping now? Are they isolating more? Just being aware of any changes with them is what I would think  would be the biggest thing. 

And then probably , pardon me.

Oh, go ahead. 

Well, probably nobody slept for a few nights there and was isolating just because they were cowering or fearful. But then there's got to be a point in time where you start to re-emerge, right? 

Yeah.

And I guess that's, let me guess, something that you would almost navigate. Either you would watch them or as the individual, you would say, okay, am I taking baby steps? Am I getting back out there? It must be a process. 

I think it would also be kind of challenging, too. Like if they're wanting to stay in their room for a long, significant period of time, if I was the caregiver, I'd be like, hey, let's just be out with the family for a little bit. So kind of letting them have that time to process and have what they need, their space, but then kind of helping them get back to that new. 

So do you do that? Do you try and tweeze people into wellness again or into normalcy? Or what do you say about that?

It's definitely something you want to be aware of for them and where they're at. So if it's someone who's in the room and doesn't usually isolate, there are opportunities to come watch a movie with us, play a game with us. Or, hey, we're going to the grocery store, do you want to come? So there are small opportunities that exist in life that aren't out of the ordinary where it feels like we're pulling someone out of their space and intentionally disrupting. But sometimes it does take that. We have to disrupt the cycle to get back into the routine because we want to, maybe, isolate or... be sad for a day. And although that's okay to feel that emotion, it's also important for others around them to be able to recognize that, observe, and monitor those behaviors. I think that's an important piece of it is monitoring, hey, this is a little different than it's been, and it's been going on a while. Maybe I can try to see if they're willing to take a step this way. 

Do you imagine there's a dam and... are going to eventually have the big cry, and that's going to be a breakthrough. Does that happen? Should we encourage that? Should we not worry if it doesn't happen? What do you make of that?

It can happen, and it is okay for it to happen, and that's an important thing to note because some people try to bottle that up. Then, it almost becomes unhealthy because behind that dam, all that water is building up, and that pressure, and then it leads to the cracks, and that's when we're going to be unhealthy because it starts flowing out all over the place where we don't want it to go, right.  So there has to be a path, and it's important to recognize when is my pressure building up, or when is it, is it for me that I am not living in the land of a 9 or a 10, but it's okay that I'm a 6 all the time? It's okay that my water level rises behind the dam because I know what I'm proactively doing to keep it at a 6. And maybe I feel some level of stress, but it's not going to hit that point of a 9. It's okay if it doesn't. And if it does, do I have the skills and am I prepared to manage when then that crisis moment happens? 

But wouldn't you say that it'd be ideal for somebody if they're living at a six? That sounds high to me. Elevated, maybe not high. Should they aspire to be a four? Should they always be working on that? Or are you saying, no, live your life as a six. You've got it under control. It's a six, but you can live your life as a six. 

For me, if someone's living their life undisrupted and they're able to use skills daily to proactively maintain a six, they're still moving through life functioning to where they can be, then sometimes it's okay to be uncomfortable. There are a lot of times right now where we feel that any level of discomfort is negative. That's actually not true. We might not live in the land of being a zero for emotion all the time. We may have to manage uncomfortable spaces, and learning to manage at a six can definitely help us and prevent us from getting to an eight. Would I love for everyone to be at a four? Yes. Is that always realistic with the depleted resources that you talked about earlier, the exhaustion and things that we've gone over the last couple of years? Not necessarily. So how do we manage where we're at? 

Besides, if you're living your life at a one every day, maybe you're not doing that right. Life is a little more complicated than that. And I would share with you this observation about me, that in the last year or so, maybe as a result of the pandemic and everything else, I've had a couple of substantial cries. And I can think of the specific things that triggered them. But I would also tell you it felt so good. I think I was crying out things that I didn't even know, and it just felt so replenishing. I don't know why I'm telling you that. 

Because you feel comfortable with us. 

Well, you're doing your job here. Maybe I'll owe you money after we have this conversation. But I guess I would like to see other people have that as well, that purging. 

And it could look different for everyone, right? Like some people take it out, you know, maybe they do a kickboxing class, and that gets that, what you got out with your cry. So sometimes it can look a little different. 

Oh, another way to physically sort of exhaust those demons. 

Because you see like your tears come out. So that's a physical release. But maybe the kickboxing class of the actual physical movement can. 

You know, but I also find myself then just kind of breathing more fully. And then I thought maybe I need to learn a breathing exercise. Do you all, when you work with clients, kind of talk to them about physical ways to sort of manage their stress? Are we past that in this conversation? We're talking about something else. What would you say?

The breathing techniques and exercises are really important if we're talking about being able to stay present, mindful in the moment, and being able to not take our mind back to some of those other places. We want people to be in the moment as we continue to stay. Stability, routine, being able to manage those day-to-day moments, get from point A to point B or point Z, if that's where you're going, are really important. And sometimes it is stopping, being able to clear your mind and just take a proper deep breath, be able to work through a technique, hold that breath for a few seconds, blow it out for a few seconds, and then move forward.

But that feels like a Band-Aid to me. So that gets me through this moment or this half day. But I don't want to have to rely on that. 

But breathing is important. You should keep breathing.

It's a good thing. 

I try to every day. 

It's a good thing, yeah. 

But you see my point that that seems to me to be, I'll just go back to that thought, that it's, I'd like to not have to need a breathing technique right now. 

But maybe you need that breathing technique because you're at that six. And then once that you get that obviously automatic breathe that you know that you don't even need to think about that, hat mechanism or that coping skill, you can be able to keep your mind more in the present. Like you said, the present is very powerful. If we're worrying too much about the past, that's where a lot of that depression comes. And if we're worrying too much about the future, then that's a lot where that anxiety comes from. 

Is it possible? I have no idea where this goes. But say, okay, as a result of this trauma, I'm having trouble coping. And I'll deal with the media techniques and maybe it’ll become automatic, and now I'll be able to manage it. But do events like that trigger bona fide psychoses? Does it actually upset somebody's mental health apple cart, or is it something that you can rein back in? You know, you're either going to have a mental illness or not, and this event is traumatic, but it's not going to cause a mental illness per se. Talk to me about that. Should I be fearful that, oh my God, now I'm not going to be well anymore, or is this something that I'm going to be able to manage here ever after? 

I think it's dependent, right? So, if you can learn the coping skills and use all of that in your tools, then you can kind of have that to move forward with if signs and symptoms come up. But sometimes, especially from trauma, symptoms look not so much like just anxiety and depression, but it can be physical symptoms. So, you can feel pain or nauseous or even some stuff that we don't normally think of when we think of aftermath of traumatic experiences.

 Is that a diagnosis? Is that an illness per se that you're describing? 

Just like symptoms of it. 

Of what?

Of just experiencing or witnessing a traumatic event. 

Right, okay, so I'm going through all of that, but you're not going to diagnose me now as manic depressive or as clinically depressed; that doesn't trigger something that wasn't previously waiting for me. You concur? 

Right, it doesn't mean that you're automatically, even if you were predisposed before

and had this event, you're not going to automatically, okay, that person is definitely going to be, as you said, you know, major depressed now, in  this moment on this day at this week. It is important to recognize that when a major event like this happens, those that are potentially predisposed, had traumatic experiences in their past, had different diagnoses, may feel symptoms more prolonged or experience deeper, stronger symptoms, but that's not necessarily going to happen to every person. 

Well, that's good to hear, right? I mean, seriously, I don't mean to be coy about this, but one wonders if having gone through something that traumatic, if it's going to change your chemical or mental composition. Am I going to be okay now? I want you to tell me that I can be okay now, right? Can I be okay now, right? I mean, I'm going to live with this memory, with this trauma, but I'm going to still have a... fruitful life. I would imagine the people in Highland Park must very much be wandering along those lines, right? 

Absolutely. I would say that there is hope for any of those individuals, and there's an opportunity for them to continue to live, even if distressed or feeling as if they're overwhelmed or going through something. It can be okay. And at times it doesn't have to necessarily say, okay, I'm always okay. I may not be okay in the moment. And that's all right too. It's very difficult for us to live in a land where being not okay is okay. But we need to start understanding that and then go through the steps to heal. And we can find fulfillment, find meaning again in certain things, and continue, as said earlier, to accumulate those positive experiences in life, and there is ultimately then hope. 

I wonder, too, if as a community, or say family members, we should allow people to be not exactly the same person they were before. Or maybe the same person, but their stress levels are peaked a little more easily or by certain things. You know, let's, let's, let's give these people that right. 

Have some grace with others around you.

Yeah. I think the planet could use that, but specifically applied here, that would be a case. And then, do you have recommendations for people? If it's not me, but maybe somebody I know, how should I approach them about doing something more proactive about their mental health? How do I talk to them, or what do I do as a friend, would you say, Lily? 

I think I would just be honest and open and just be like, say, you know, I've noticed some changes. Maybe even give them a chance and an opportunity to speak to you, especially if they don't know that they have you as an option to talk to. I think sometimes just being that person as, hey, I've noticed some stuff has gone differently. Is anything up that you want to talk about? So I think having that open conversation can really help with that. 

Jason, I would imagine a lot of times you say, hey, if you want to talk, let me know. And the person never reaches out because they don't think you really want to hear it or they're not capable of it. I wonder if I should kind of encourage them. You know, say, I'm going to come over tomorrow, and let's, if I felt the door was cracked open a little bit, open a little wider. Do you like that strategy? 

I do like that strategy. It may just be over lunch, right? Hey, why don't you come over? I'm cooking this. And then when you're doing something, it's amazing how conversation seems to happen. It's also important to crack that door open because we do daily maintenance all of the time for other things outside of ourselves. And that's another bridge to that conversation with a friend or a peer. I take care of my car by taking it to get gas so it goes, or doing oil changes and things like that. So if someone's not understanding that need to talk to someone, it's part of that daily maintenance. You could talk to me, and you don't have to go into everything, but it's going to have a long-term benefit. Just like taking care of your house, your car, the other things in your life, it's important we just hang out, and I'm here for you. Being present, sometimes, is enough and does leave the door open for someone. 

I was about to say, instead of a lunch, I'll bring a bottle of wine. And that's a conversation I'm going to have with some of your colleagues down the road another day. But we haven't addressed that much here. But I could see how this would be a trigger for alcohol and substance abuses, too. Do either of you have anything to say about cautioning people about that, or being aware of how having gone through something like the Fourth of July in Highland Park can lead to relapses?

Anytime that you experience that more acute stress environment, it can absolutely lead to someone either lapsing or, if they have a history of that, or it's someone who is now at home more or isolating, they can be in that substance use space. Again, it doesn't necessarily mean that everyone experiencing an  event is going to turn to substance use. But it is something to understand: am I doing these behaviors more than I did a week ago, a day ago, a couple days ago, and what purpose or goal is it serving? Am I now drinking this alcohol all of the time because I really don't want to manage this other stuff going on and feelings. And if we're recognizing that in ourselves, or you talked about friends, if we're recognizing that in others, then it's time to say, okay, we're using this as more than just a social environment. It is now becoming a prime coping strategy and an unhealthy one at that. 

I haven't heard it put that way, but that does seem to be almost a responsible description of it, a social environment, not a coping tool. But socially, in this environment, it is not inappropriate for adults to have a glass of wine. But to what degree are we doing that would be the question, right? 

Yeah, that would. 

And that's all I got for you guys. Is there something else that you want to share with our listeners about coping with trauma? Large trauma like people have experienced in Highland Park, and either how to recognize that you've gone through it, or maybe coping tools or mechanisms going forward? What would you say generally? 

One of the things that is really important that we may not have touched on, is if you're experiencing some response to a traumatic event, make sure that we've said to be connected and to remain safe, but also, don't inundate yourself with reliving that event over and over again. Make sure that you have enough disconnect and get back to whatever your routine is because it is important not to continue to maybe put yourself in a cycle of distress and allow yourself some hope to get out of that by not overexposing yourself to that event and reliving it. 

It's funny because one of your colleagues said something along the lines of, you know, go to a movie, watch a show, read a book, exercise, go for a walk. Find things to, if not just distract yourself, kind of heal yourself. We haven't talked about that much here, but I can see people playing that over and over again in their minds. I suspect you heard that from some of the people that you visited with that the next day, right? 

Yeah, and even they had videos and wanted to share them. So, it was like now they're watching the videos and sharing it with the people that they know and who are around them. 

So don't repeat that cycle. I mean, that's natural, but now it's okay to delete the video. 

Yeah, there comes a point that we're going to delete. 

Yeah, no kidding. Well, let's not delete this. This has been very interesting, and I suspect helpful. Jason Relle, Director of Crisis Services for Rosecrance, and Liliana Clay, who is a mental health therapist and licensed clinical social worker at Rosecrance. Both of you, thank you. 

Thank you. 

Thank you.

This is On Your Radar, a podcast series produced by WGN Radio and the doctors and clinical staff at Rosecrance. With over 60 locations throughout Chicagoland, Northern and Central Illinois, Wisconsin and Iowa, getting help is just a click away. Go to rosecrance.org.

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